Hey, Roaming! So, my dad mentioned one of those privilege thought exercises where it has people in a line and then they ask questions, take a step forward and back, etc. I was surprised he totally believes in privilege. I am of the opinion that the US is extremely privileged as a whole in comparison to other nations. So, barring that fact, I want to argue that poverty is the common denominator, not race, in terms of a metric of success or privilege. The census statistics for the "poorest cities in America" showed places with a high black population. I looked at it at a rural level, too. No one can deny that people who are so far removed from modern society are underprivileged when the median income was like $9000. Long story short, 47% (more than any other group) of those poorest places were predominantly black. Like 66% of them were US-minority majority places. I can't exactly deny that. I tried to look for some kind of racial break down of specifically the poor in those tiny places, but the Census didn't have them openly available. But I also couldn't find any sort of indicator of cost of living in those places. I also can't think of a reason other than maybe the systemic racist people might actually have a point about there being a disproportionate amount of poverty amongst black people in comparison to white people. If it's not some kind of racism at the root of the problem, what is? I'm pretty stumped. For me the numbers are starting to actually suggestive to the SJWs having a point, but then again as someone more concerned with endangered fish populations than human populations, I'm a little out of my element here so I'm looking to you for any kind of opinion or insight. Just like in ecological niches I can only assume there are n-dimensional variables acting on whether or not people are successful. My metric for success or this perception of privilege is completely flawed, but even so, the trend is startling. Damn, I kind of want to stick to looking at fish. Fish make more sense to me than social stuff.
@Segev Isn't that what public schools do? Why can't we make sure all public schools are getting equal funding and be done with it?
@EllenC Maybe take a look at the schools demographics vs the general population?
In the end, the best way to help people is to provide opportunities for those who are not meeting qualifications to find ways TO meet them. Courses in material they're deficient in in places they can go to take them seem the most likely to help with university admissions, for instance. These all can be 100% color-blind, because they only need to measure competency, and only need to help gain that competency where it's lacking. You help nobody by lowering the bar based on their skin color. You only help them by giving them training to enable them to leap over the same bar as everybody else.
I think those numbers are actually the really important ones. If you look at the way minorities are highly selected and admitted to universities vs how many actually finish their degrees, it's another startling number. It seems fine and good to admit for the sake of diversity, but are you admitting someone who has no place being there simply so you can say look at all these Mexicans we have aren't we inclusive. If you're taking people who aren't ready simply because they're minorities all you're doing is putting financial hardship on them in the form of paying back student loans for a degree they never got and couldn't afford in the first place... :S So when things get rough I find myself really wondering about affirmative action and if it shot me in the foot or if I can actually do it.
@EllenC wow, that must really bump up the 'imposter syndrome'. but, even if someone did get in as a token, it's their own hard work and smarts that will get them to graduation, right? try to remember that :-)
That's the thing though Armadillo.... Did I get in on merit or the color of my skin? I will never know!! It's heartbreaking to think about. Did I get in because I'm awesome? Or am I token Mexican?? I try not to think about it because it actually does hurt too much to think about.
@EllenC Well I was more talking about race prioties that colleges have, not so much about finacial aid. Helping poor people is great. But it shouldn't focus on specific races or or encourage people not to work.
@Segev it does seem like the typical upsidedown thinking of leftists. maybe at first the people that started the welfare state wanted to help. in the uk the welfare state really got going after ww2 so i can totally see why you'd wanna help heal a country. but now we see what should have been obvious: when you take away a person's motivation to work by giving them a level of comfort, you also take away their responsibility and voliton and so on. that the us targeted minorities for this is honestly quite sinister... the whole point of the welfare state and socialism type things is for it to be equal.
@EllenC good work, mate. good luck with your studies and future career. did you grow up on welfare? like basic living costs, housing, food, etc? id put higher education scholarships etc as a different category from providing basic living costs. it does sound like in the usa they have strange eligibilty requirments tho for higher education funding, like minority quotas and stuff?
Well, as a minority who's getting a leg up so I can afford university I can't say that I agree. It's a case-by-case thing. I chose a STEM program at a really difficult tier one research university and while I was more prepared than a lot of people, the year leading up to my attendance I paid for and took remedial math classes at my community college just to make sure I wasn't in over my head. I'm taking elective classes that I know will have marketable skills when I graduate. I am really privileged to have this chance to make a better life for myself so I don't fuck it up by going to parties or anything, but without scholarships and grants I would not have this chance at all. I'm already making connections with potential employers and interning left and right to make sure I don't become a STEM educated barista on welfare. So I get that helping minorities is bad because it feeds the welfare state and stuff, but I'm still happy for the chance to shoot higher than cleaning lady or house wife with too many kids.
Yes often it's not that leftists are wrong, it's that they think they're entitled to kindness. They also don't listen to real solutions. Reducing welfare might force people to create a real economy with the potental to move up. Instead they want a basuc income.
The supposedly anti-racism policies designed to give blacks and other minorities "a leg up" by not holding them to the same standards as everybody else (both academically and socially and morally) and to treat blacks who act "too white" as if they're somehow "not really black" (thus conflating culture with race) combine with the welfare state - which was designed to imprison anybody who got on it, and was deliberately targeted at minorities - leads to the poverty-stricken areas being very largely minority-dominated. It's the government's "help" that does it. It's no coincidence that the supposedly-priviliged groups are those who get the least "assistance" from the government. They really are priviliged...to be left alone and made to rely on themselves.
yup. and today they have a twitter-insta-facebook-youtube community and they never learn how to use their voice or present an argument because they never leave their bubble, and will get their way with no effort (welfare state, nanny state, coddling, safe spaces, etc etc??)... until we see them imploding at a protest or debate when faced with someone who can speak or not get emotional or hysterical.
Extremists blow things up until it's ridiculous and then start shrieking if you offer an alternative point of view... Which is why it took so long for me to try to look at the numbers in the first place. They don't get that maybe some of their ideas are good, but you can't just scream and whine like a kid to get people to listen to you. I don't know about everyone else, but as a kid I learned very fast that was not how you get your way. My parents would just ignore me 'til I shut up and used my words.
one of the maddening things about sjw's/leftists or any extremists is that they often have a grain of truth in their ideas, but just blow it up til it's ridiculous.
in this case, we should probably start by working out what they actually mean, past the slogans and so on, and see if there are reasons to support it?
if anyone could state what exactly white privilege means in simple terms that'd be cool.
maybe something like 'white people have better lives in the usa soley because they are white' ??
idk if that's strawmanning tho? because on the face of it that is clearly silly.
Maybe they like being victims? Why be poor when you could poor and face racism as well?
it's bizarre isn't it? the sjw's don't even know their own ideas... i thought they are fans of socialism and communism and so would think that rich and poor is bad... but then they bring it back to skin colour instead? literally racist?
Well like i said it's likely due to past segregation, not current. At this point it's mostly due to poor communities staying poor, and they happen to be largely black.
Oh, no I am not going that far to the dark side. There's no way anyone can convince me that all white people are privileged, because those same statistics showed like 30%+ of the poorest rural areas were predominantly white. You cannot tell me they're privileged based on the color of their skin when they're living under the poverty line, too. I just can't go on saying "Lawl, shut up, you're lying about this systemic racism thing good grief you should have studied a real major". It's still a huge poverty issue, but like... the trend can't be denied at least to me.
It is true poor communities tend to be largely black. And it;s also true that poor communities tend to stay poor (crime breeds crime, ect). This is likely due to past racism that segregated races. The SJW are likely correct in this regard (in my opinion anyway). However that doesn't mean EVERY black person is disadvantage, or that every white person is privileged.