Hey, Roaming. So I’m curious how your religious beliefs affect your stances on major issues. What I have in mind, specifically, is whether you think religion plays a significant role concerning the issue of veganism. Last night I finally watched your debate with VeganGains (the first one). I agree with you that meat-eating isn't wrong, that man is more important than animals, etc. However, I found one of your arguments for them to be insufficient, like your response to Ask Yourself's question with the double-standards in killing animals and humans. His implication is that if intelligence or emotion (I’m using these specifically to refer to sentience broadly) is what justifies humans from not being treated like animals, then logically, if a person were reduced in intelligence to say that of a cow or a chicken then it would count for the person to be treated like these animals, and not anything especially different. I think the only way you can really answer that is because of religion. I am a Christian, so of course, I come at it from a Christian perspective—I think you do too, since you said you hold Christian beliefs.

The reason why we can claim humans don’t deserve to be treated in the same way as animals is because God created man in His image and not other species, making human life more special (Genesis 1:26-28). God made us in His likeness, which of course includes intelligence, morality, emotions, consciousness, but it also means we have a soul and the ability to relate to God spiritually--the latter two something animals don’t have. We naturally see this with the animals we encounter in our environment and the Bible confirms it—we just somehow “get” that animals are different and that humans are more important. God created man to co-rule with Him over the earth by taking care of it, cultivating it, and of course, ruling over the animals (Genesis 2:15; Psalm 115:16). Throughout both the Old Testament and the New Testament God explicitly or implicitly affirms that human life is more valuable than animal life, however much we should take care of animals (e.g. Matthew 6:26; Psalm 8:4-8). God’s permission for us to eat animals in Genesis shows that killing them for food is fine and that it’s an exercise of rightful co-rule (Genesis 9:2-4). If we take all of this as true, then this would explain why it’s wrong for a person in a vegetative state to be killed, even if his or her’s mental capacity was like a cow’s—it’s because they are made in the image of God and more valued. No matter how smart a dog, a chimpanzee, or a pig is, they are still animals. They aren’t made in His image, they don’t have a soul, they can never relate to God, and they weren’t given the right to rule and care for the earth.

I hope you didn’t read what I said as being preachy, I just think that including religion into the argument is the only logical way to solve this dilemma and that the Bible, if it’s true, seems to account for such an important issue, better than a purely naturalistic explanation. It’s why in the end I agree with all of your conclusions but I think how you arrive at them could be better argued. Of course, there are nuances to this. Like why assume Christianity instead of Bhuddism or Islam as the true religion; but I’m just speaking generally since there isn’t enough space to cover all of it without being too long. One last thing I would add is that VeganGains was upset in the video that meat-eaters aren’t compassionate to animals—that we have no right to hurt them to benefit ourselves. I don’t know his religious beliefs, but I would turn the question back on him: why do I have to be compassionate to animals? Without God (or gods) you can’t make a moral objection against killing them, or even doing so unnecessarily--it’s just your opinion versus mine. If somehow we know we should, why? How do you account for it? If there is only the material world and religion isn’t true, then isn’t it survival of the fittest to focus on what humans want and need and not other species? Isn’t it right to be true to what mother nature created us to be if that is all there is?

So what do think? Do you agree? Do you think there are holes in my reasoning? I would really like to know your thoughts. And as always, I absolutely LOVE your channel and regularly watch your videos.

Comments (2)
No. 1-2
EssyK
EssyK

I guess we can just agree to disagree. Intelligence by itself outside of religion still doesn’t explain the dilemma, I find. Using that kind of reasoning, if we found aliens that had a higher range of intelligence than us, where in comparison we are like animals, then they would be more valuable and deserving of life than we do. People in vegetative states would not be justified in being treated differently from cows or chickens simply because they did not meet the definition of worth the rest of mankind has.

I can sympathize why you wouldn't include religion in the debate--a discussion on it would have created more rabbit trails.than were needed for that particular video (and more hostility from a childish VeganGains.). Still, when it comes to answering these questions, just because it's an answer they don't want to hear (and won't "work") doesn't mean it shouldn't be said or that it doesn't fall within the realm of logic (and not just "faith") for this issue. Then it's their problem for not accepting it as such.

Nonetheless, I appreciate your response and effort in wrestling with these issues; thanks so much for your time, Roaming. Have a great day, girl!

RoamingMillennial
RoamingMillennial

The Bible definitely supports the idea that eating meat is perfectly valid and moral, however, neither Vegan Gains nor Ask Yourself is Christian, therefore, using Christianity as an argument while talking to them would be as effective as using a Scientology argument when talking to me. It just wouldn't work.
Eating meat is definitely justifiable outside of Christianity, because empirically, scientifically, humans are distinct from the rest of the animal kingdom. As Christians, the biggest difference we might see is a soul, but for those who aren't Christian and may not believe in souls, differences like cognitive reasoning, ability for abstract thought, emotional capacity, self-awareness are all reasons why we might treat animals differently than humans.



Konoruck
Konoruck
New Comment
1