President Donald Trumps lawyer Rudy Giuliani on Sunday claimed truth isnt truth when trying to explain why the president should not testify for special counsel Robert Mueller for fear of being trapped into a lie that could lead to a perjury charge.

When you tell me that, you know, he should testify because hes going to tell the truth and he shouldnt worry, well thats so silly because its somebodys version of the truth. Not the truth, Giuliani told Chuck Todd on NBCs Meet the Press on Sunday morning Truth is truth, Todd responded.

No, no, it isnt truth, Giuliani said. Truth isnt truth. The President of the United States says, I didnt

A startled Todd answered: Truth isnt truth?

Giuliani: No, no, no.

Todd said: This is going to become a bad meme.

Giulianis remark was not the first time he has gone down this road.

Last week on CNN, he rejected Chris Cuomos assertion that facts are not in the eye of the beholder."

"Yes, they are," Giuliani said. "Nowadays they are."

In May, the former New York mayor pursued a similar line of thought in an interview with The Washington Post about the Mueller investigation: They may have a different version of the truth than we do.

The statement also recalled Kellyanne Conways statement in January 2017 referring to alternative facts offered by the White House about crowd sizes at Trumps inauguration.

Trumps legal team, led by Giuliani, earlier this month replied to special counsel Muellers proposal for terms of a possible presidential interview, but wouldnt disclose the details of the counteroffer.

Mueller is investigating whether the Russian government colluded with Trumps 2016 campaign, as well as related issues including possible obstruction of justice by the president.

The president has said he is willing to speak with the special counsel, though that has yet to come about.

Giuliani and others have expressed concerns that Mueller might use a statement by Trump to indict him for perjury based on differences in what the president might say from what others have testified. They have two pieces of evidence, Giuliani said to Todd in explaining that idea. Trump says I didnt tell them and the other guy says that he did say it. Which is the truth? Maybe you know because youre a genius.

Giuliani also accused Mueller of leaking that White House counsel Don McGahn cooperated with the special counsel.

The New York Times reported Saturday that McGahn spent 30 hours over a three-day period answering questions as part of Muellers investigation.

Trump tweeted Saturday evening that he allowed McGahn and all other requested members of the White House staff, to fully cooperate with the special counsel.

Giuliani told Todd that the special counsel was the only one who could have leaked the story.

I believe this is a desperate special counsel who leaked this to The New York Times, illegally I might add, he said.

When pressed how he knew it was Mueller, Giuliani said those involved on Trump's side would have never done it.

I didnt leak to the Times and Jay Sekulow didnt leak it to the Times. The president sure as heck didnt. So who could it be? Giuliani said. It could be McGahn. McGahns not doing it, and he would have done it a long time ago if he was gonna do it.

Giuliani, who has previously called on the investigation to end in September, said he doesnt believe the White House has any evidence on the president.

Theyre down to desperation time, he said. They have to write a report and they dont have a single bit of evidence.

Giulianis observation about truth was widely mocked on Twitter. A number of those tweets focused on George Orwells book 1984 a novel about a totalitarian state where war is peace," "freedom is slavery and ignorance is strength. Those phrases reflect doublethink, a concept whereby the enslaved citizenry is kept in check.

"'Truth isn't truth.'--@RudyGiuliani to @chucktodd. It's why, since 2016, the book of the year, every year, has been and will be George Orwell's '1984,' tweeted Larry Sabato, a University of Virginia political scientist and author.

Presidential historian Michael Beschloss, after tweeting out Giulianis truth isnt truth and Orwells trio of slogans, followed with this tweet: Two early TV game shows 'To Tell the Truth' and 'Ive Got a Secret.'

Rep. Ted Lieu (D-Calif.) tweeted about another bit of history.

The statement by Rudy Giuliani that truth isn't truth is another step towards authoritarianism. It also reminds us of Nixon's defense that when the president does it, that means it is not illegal, referencing Richard M. Nixons post-presidential assertion to TV host David Frost.

Perhaps the simplest response, though, came from a dictionary. In response to Giulianis remarks Sunday, Merriam-Webster tweeted a link to the definition of the word "truth."

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